Kevin Yoho
on Sunday, October 03, 2010 at 07:53am
Hello,
Just a reminder that we are interested in addressing the retired EP/GP community within AEP's. See other posts online in this Forum conversation.
Thank you.
Steering Committee
Under this site's Directory tab you will see a PDF Retired EP Contact list.
Hello, all. Houston Hodges checking in, from retirement haven in Huntsville, AL. I served North Alabama Presbytery from 1988 to retirement in 1995, and prior to that was on staff of San Francisco Presbytery; before that worked for Winnipeg Presbytery of the United Church of Canada. Will be glad to chat with other retirees -- one of the few things I've missed about GA attendance is the chance to schmooze with you folk.
Okay, so I WAS posting all that time -- all four tries registered! Sorry about the replication; maybe I'll learn how to use this gimcrack.
I feel very insecure with the internet. I just can't think like a computer. But with time we will learn
Houston what are youdoing to stay out of mischief? I have been workingwith a number of congregations using a curriculum entitled "Unbinding the Gospel", a series of four books written by Martha Grace Reese. It's helpingchurch folk to:
1. Reclaim a meaningful prayerlife.
2. Reconnect with the Bible in a manner where they discoverhow our storiesare illuminatedby The Story
3.Claim the capacity to discernand talk about their experiencesof grace.
IT'S VERY BASIC STUFF BUTi FIND THAT THE MAJORITY OF PRESBYTERIANSDON'T PRACTICE THEIR FAITH BEYOND ONE HOUR A WEEK ON SUNDAY MORNING.
Cheers andGod bless, Ed
You're more effective than you imagine, Ed! I got six copies of that reply you sent! I had the same thing happen to me -- pushed the "create reply" button, and saw nothing significant happen except for getting a timed-out message -- so tried several more times, and discovered each of them was being posted.
Your workshop on prayer -- Bible -- testimony -- is indeed basic, but that's good, as far as I'm concerned. I've just finished four adult SS classes on "Presbyterian Bible 101" -- what our confessions say, why we're not literalists, summaries of OT and NT. Got good response. Will be glad to send notes to anyone desiring same, if you'll send me e-addy.
I'm not really taken with the ease of use of this system. When I try to "Leave a Reply" and fill in the Comment box and press "Create Reply" I get the rotating action-bar for a long, long time -- and then the "Timed Out" error message. Then when I leave the site and come back in an hour, I find the note has been posted with no problems.
But that time it finally stopped whirring and working and showing me the rotating beach-ball, and posted the message. Maybe 2 minutes of waiting.
Looks like you and i are a two person conversation. I have been sending various things out to the group hoping to provoke some conversation. Hope you had a good Christmas. I'll keep trying. Cheers, Ed
I'm glad you're still trying; I've been remiss in coming here, because it's been inactive -- but I'll pitch in to try to help liven things up a little. Yep, good Christmas -- with a beautiful snow, unusual for Alabama. And two more since then. We're gearing up for debate on the formidable list of overtures, including 10-A -- and wondering whether setting up a planning meeting will be worthwhile; this consistently red presbytery is unlikely to change its support of the present reading of G-6.0106.
What about the EPs who THOUGHT they had retired but are back at it? I said goodbye to Grace in 2007; Marney and I moved to Tucson to co-pastor a downtown congregation that didn't have the funds they thought; so I've been commuting to Phoenix to help Grand Canyon as Interim. It's been interesting doing interim work after three exec positions.
Last year, we started reading the Great Emergency by Phyllis Tickle and have her scheduled to visit a year from now - to all four presbyteries in Southwest. And, I just finished a fascinating read by a UVa professor of culture entitled "To Change the World: the Irony, Tragedy & Possibility of Christianity in the Late Modern World." He's talking about Christians sense of call to transform the world, which he argues is impossible, but something both the left and right fail to grasp; he states that the public witness of the church has been reduced to only political witness and we're failing to be imaginative; and he offers the concept of "faithfulness in exile (Jeremiah)" as the alternative (nothing new) to be nihilism that rests behind the James Dobsons and Jim Wallis of the church. A good read and I'm trying to figure out a way to pave a discussion on this one.
Enough, friends - gotta head up to Phoenix for our Presbytery meeting today. Take care.
Dave Wasserman
Well, it's the Great Emergence
When I do an orientation about what's going on in the Church, I outline three broad movements. The first is as Dave points out: the Emergent Church (and in some cases it is an emergency!). Describing that new creation takes some care and Phyllis makes a good stab at it while putting it in context. You have to watch out because some have claimed the title for the "same old." The second movement finds it's easiest description in Christianity for the Rest of Us by Diana Butler Bass. There are lots of other case studies and Alban keeps pushing in this movement along with The Parish Resource Center and others. There really are transforming congregations. It's hard work (I know I've worked with a bunch over the years as a consultant and staff person). The third movement is dying churches. Some know it. Others don't. Enough said.
While I'm thinking with my fingers, two other comments. I've spent a lot of time over the last twenty years paying attention to spiritual formation. I agree with many that church and faith transformation only goes as deep and as wide as the level of spiritual development of the pastor, staff and leaders. As a consultant and staff person, I've encountered amazing resistance to such talk as well as delight, mostly resistance. Some of you know I've been hanging out with Franciscans and that has been mostly helpful (And Ed, Richard Rohr and I discovered we go back to Cincinnati together in the 1960's).
But this spiritual stuff (go beyond Reformed Spirituality by Howard Rice), has me pondering whether or not "transforming church" is really worth the effort or even possible. That's why I like Doug Hall bringing back the notion of "faith" into our thinking (Christian Century a few weeks ago). All those theologians (Neo-Orthodox) I fussed with in the 50's & 60's had it right when they said Christ didn't come to establish a religion. And too much of "church" is about religion and nothing else.
So, what road does this take us down, O sages? Or is this even worth the bother?
Tom Castlen
Dave Wasserman you are welcome and it's good to hear from you. Also Tom Castlen
Considering the state of the church... Kenda Creasey Dean describes many mainline Protestants as "moralistic therapeutic Deists" We are comfortable with a god who maintains a comfortable distance and doesn't get involved in the unfolding drama of our lives or of history. At our best we aspire to do great things for God but we don't expect much of God. We view the Christian life as an achievement rather than a gift.
One wise soul said, "God is not at work producing the circumstances I want. God is at work amidst bad circumstances to produce the me that God wants." Do we believe this? Do we actually expect God to change us?
Like Tom Castlen I have become something of a fan of Richard Rohy who has written many good books. Most recently I have enjoyed his little paperback entitled EVERYTHING BELONGS: THE GIFT OF CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER.
Cheers and God bless, Ed White
Dave Wasserman you are welcome and it's good to hear from you. Also Tom Castlen
Considering the state of the church... Kenda Creasey Dean describes many mainline Protestants as "moralistic therapeutic Deists" We are comfortable with a god who maintains a comfortable distance and doesn't get involved in the unfolding drama of our lives or of history. At our best we aspire to do great things for God but we don't expect much of God. We view the Christian life as an achievement rather than a gift.
One wise soul said, "God is not at work producing the circumstances I want. God is at work amidst bad circumstances to produce the me that God wants." Do we believe this? Do we actually expect God to change us?
Like Tom Castlen I have become something of a fan of Richard Rohy who has written many good books. Most recently I have enjoyed his little paperback entitled EVERYTHING BELONGS: THE GIFT OF CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER.
Cheers and God bless, Ed White
Dave Wasserman you are welcome and it's good to hear from you. Also Tom Castlen
Considering the state of the church... Kenda Creasey Dean describes many mainline Protestants as "moralistic therapeutic Deists" We are comfortable with a god who maintains a comfortable distance and doesn't get involved in the unfolding drama of our lives or of history. At our best we aspire to do great things for God but we don't expect much of God. We view the Christian life as an achievement rather than a gift.
One wise soul said, "God is not at work producing the circumstances I want. God is at work amidst bad circumstances to produce the me that God wants." Do we believe this? Do we actually expect God to change us?
Like Tom Castlen I have become something of a fan of Richard Rohy who has written many good books. Most recently I have enjoyed his little paperback entitled EVERYTHING BELONGS: THE GIFT OF CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER.
Cheers and God bless, Ed White
"God is not at work producing the circumstances I want. God is at work amidst bad circumstances to produce the me that God wants."
Loved that Ed, thanks! Posting it on Facebook in a little while, to see what it draws there. You know, I have no trouble believing that premise, in fact it seems clear to me that's what's happening to me, on my good days. It's the other I can't envision, how God would produce new circumstances, changing reality. Isn't that the old "Watchmaker" theory in practice?
Takes FOREVER for my replies to post, tells me it's waiting, waiting, waiting. Does that happen for everyone?
Sorry if you're experiencing delays... I checked and do not see any service/internet issues. Thank you for posting. Keep doing that!
If you continue having issues, please let me know.
Kevin
I posted your great comment about God wanting to make the best me for difficult times got more response on Facebook than anything else I've ever posted. Thanks, Ed!
Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life is a wonderful book by Richard Rohr Jossey-Bass Publishers 2011. He argues that the primary agenda for the first half of our life is ACHIEVEMENT ie Establishing our identity, purpose, making a difference etc. Hopefully we transition to the second half of life where we experience life as a GIFT. Unfortunately many people never make the transition. I think Rohr is on to something. Cheers, Ed White
I like these "different segments of life" dealies, Ed, as long as they make the last one (or next to last) one I am inhabiting!
"Most of us tend to think of the second half of life as largely about growing old. ...but the whole thesis of this book is exactly the opposite. What looks like falling can be experienced as falling upward, into a broader and deeper world, where the soul has found its fullness, is finally connected to the whole, and lives inside the Big Picture" - Richard Rohr inFALLING UPWARD
pAGE 153. cHEERS AND gOD BLESS, eD wHITE
Ed & Houston
thanks for your comments on Falling Upward
just ordered it and look forward to reading it...
The quick dichotomy between achievement and gift resonates. I know in my journey, I worked - overworked - to demonstrate competence and when I left exec work in 2007, I had a sense I was done. (went into the parish with Marney as co-pastors, but when the church didn't have the funds to sustain the 1 1/3 time salary, I wound up back in exec work one last time - interim in Grand Canyon (where I served 27 years ago).
the thing is that I'm seeing each day more as gift than as an opportunity to achieve. I'm less and less interested in proving anything (other than I can keep the basics going and stay connected to my friends and my dear family). Life is a gift - thanks be to God
and thanks for letting this not-quite-retired exec in on your conversation.
Dave
Dave and Houston,
I hope we can get more retired EP's in on the conversation. There are over forty of us on the e-mail list.
Another book that I found delightfully refreshing is THE PASTOR: A MEMOIR by Eugene Peterson. It's the autobiography of his 28 year pastorate of Christ the King Presbyterian Church in bel Air Maryland which he started in the 1960's.
Cheers and God bless, Ed
12:51pm
I'm just checking in. I look forward to many rich and fruitful conversations with fellow retired EP's
and will do my best to facilitate this process. Anyone who wants to contact me directly can call me at 202-362-0541 or by e-mail at thewhites8@aol.com.
Cheers and God bless, Ed White